New to FriendlyChristian.com? Check out the FAQ page to learn about the site. Wondering who the heck I am? The My Story page is a great place to start. Thanks for stopping by!
Click here to subscribe via RSS.
Click here to have posts delivered by email.
This message will automatically disappear after your 3rd visit.
- Blog about extremely personal/controversial topics that people are passionate about. Check
- Invite all demographics of readers to engage in discussion. Check
- Allow comments to be off-topic, rude, insulting, and belittling. Check
- Challenge a person’s beliefs. Check
- Talk about the things that everybody pretends don’t exist. Double Check
- Call people out for being fake. Check
- Allow commenters to dictate the voice of the site and set the site rules. Check
- Select a popular domain name that screams “promise,” and don’t deliver. Check
- Blog about something that nobody cares about like….Christianity.Check
- Be a Christian that is openly relational with the arch enemy: the Atheists. Be promoted by Atheist websites. Read books written by Atheists. Comment on Atheist websites. Check, Check, Check
Lemme just call it as I see it: pretty much all the Christians have stopped commenting on my site.
- Feeling 1: oh well.
- Feeling 2: what did I do wrong?
- Feeling 3: this is ridiculous. I’m giving up…this whole blog thing isn’t for me anyhow.
- Feeling 4: suck it up, guys. The heat gets turned up and you run? Gimme a break.
- Feeling 5: I prob would have run too. I’ve got better things to do with my time that argue with some stranger over the Internet.
- Feeling 6: I need(ed) to facilitate DISCUSSION better and put out any flame wars before/as they start.
- Feeling 7: Well, if I reach out to all the Christians that used to comment on the site, maybe I can convince them to come back.
- Feeling 8: Screw that! If they want to come, they know where to find us. I’m not even about to start begging people, “Pleeeeasse come back to my site!”
- Feeling 9: From an Atheist perspective, what does this say about Christians? That we run away when someone challenges our faith? I’ll never be like that.
- Feeling 10: I’ve been like that a million times already.
Popularity: 5% [?]
Filed under:
The Way It Is, World
Loading ...
Really? What have you read?
Sorry we chased off so many of the Christians, Bill.
Hey Bill. Sorry, I’ve fallen off the wagon the last couple of months. Or did I get on the wagon? Wasn’t that a Seinfeld episode? Either way, I’m going to comment more from now on.
Hey Ben…
So far just Hemant’s book, but I’m definitely interested in learning some more about the Atheist perspective. I think it would be beneficial for me as a Christian.
Thanks, Nathan. You da man!
Why would someone would stop commented if they believed in something strongly? It can’t be fear that the responses would undermine their faith, could it? Surely their faith is stronger than what some foolish unbelievers think.
Perhaps the effort of Thanksgiving has just left everyone a bit exhausted and they’ve taken a day or two to catch their breath.
Bill, leap straight in with The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. I’d love to hear your views.
@hov…
I may. We’ll see.
I’m all about challenging my beliefs. But I also feel like there’s a place where I have to make wise decisions on what I allow myself to take in. That’s just me, though
:-??
Er, well… You have more comments then I do, guy. Then again, you’ve been at this longer then I have, so I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.
If you want to make sure to lose more readers, you could always invite me to write an article… I’ll at least try to make it on topic, but I’m sure to make it controversial. Hmm… What to write about. >:)
Namaste.
Hey Bill-I’m sorry that so many of the Christians have disappeared. I got a little lost by the introduction of the forum (having not that much time to sneak glances at my computer while in the midst of child-rearing) and I know my commenting slowed down then. What’s been the site traffic/comment ratio since the forum introduction?
hey I’m still here :)>-
I think people are probably wrapped in life. It’s not necessarily a reflection of anyone “scaring” people away.
See what’s hard it looks like is one of the best ways to share your experiences with Christ is in person. Most people are better at showing Christ rather than just telling them. People hear enough about Christ and it is hard to show geniune love via the internet.
Why are we so hard on one another?
Hey Bill- get a clue! I think your post is rude, and in a box! I haven’t run from anything, and you missed one of the biggest reasons for people to not be here especially Christians.
It is the Christmas season, we have extra things to participate in our churches, and children that we do Christmas kind of things with…and I would love to have more time to debate but honestly I am not committed to argue on Friendly Christian. I thought today I would have some time to hang out..but I am out. I think you are confused about what you believe.
And when I mean “hard”, I mean assuming that just because Christians have left means we are just scared to be challenged.
@Heather…
Good point. I didn’t take the forum into account.
@klwrigh5…
I agre. Internet discussion is so extremely limited.
@Darla…
You clearly have missed the point of my post. No, you obviously have no commitment here and I’m sorry you aren’t gonna stick around today.
I refuse to even acknowledge your last sentence. :)>-
Scared to be challenged? Where’s the challenge?=))
I have way too much going on in my life and way too many people who WANT to know about Christ, homeless to minister too, a Mom that is passing awawy, a son that is getting deployed to Afghanistan, Christmas list a mile long….etc. This used to be a good site to discuss things, but personal accusation and attack took over and I just won’t subject myself to that garbage. I made some good friends here and those that wish to continue discussing in a mature manner do it on my blog. It’s become very rude and insulting and like I said, don’t have time for it. As far as too “challanging for my faith???” It’s made me all the more closer and stronger in it….I know without a doubt I would never walk this journey without my Jesus. Maybe when the maturity level gets back to where it was, and there is some intercession on your part Bill with the crap, some of us will come back…but really, what’s the point? Ya’ll have fun now, ya hear?<):)
@GG…
That’s on me. I take full responsibility.
ok one more post and then working on my paper
@darla and bill
what I see is frustration on both sides. darla is offended by bill’s comments
bill is annoyed that christians appear to be leaving his site
While we disagree with one another, we both come from the same place. frustration. tired of being seen as one thing by the world. annoyed with what we thinks others will think of us. worn out by the world and its lofty expectations. I think it might be a good idea for us to try to see the other person’s perspective instead of assuming things about a person. Besides, A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. (Proverbs 15:1) Just a thought.
@ those who may see this as “proof” that Christians are just as bad as everyone else, well we are in a way. We fall short and mess up. But that does not mean our faith is not geniune. See for every Christian, there is a struggle between our flesh (what we want) and what we should do (the Holy Spirit). True non-Christians have a conscience that leads them to do the right thing. But for Christians, the Holy Spirit calls us to do the right thing to the max. sometimes we win against the flesh. Sometimes not. But by the end of the day, we love. not just the people around us and nice strangers but the creeps, jerks, douchebags and losers too. and not just mutual respect either but actual crazy “otherworldly” love.:o
When I get the chance, I’ll write an article for this site about some of the misconceptions about Christians and Christianity.
The thing is, all I’ve done is made an honest observation/evaluation of this site. I’ve said the things that many people have already said.
If you look back at the post, you’ll see ME accepting responsibility for this. Point 3 & point 7. Feelings 3, 5, 6 & 10. I’m not pointing fingers at anybody but myself.
It makes perfect sense to me why so many Christians have left. Again, I’d prob have left too. Also again, it’s on me. This is my first time hosting a site like this and it’s freakin hard. Cut me some slack. From day 1 I’ve been amazed that ANYBODY would read my stuff.
As far as somebody wanting to question my beliefs: Fine. Have at it. The truth is, I’ll try to ignore it and act like that doesn’t bother me, but it’s gonna eat me up.
Every single day I want to take this site down. Every single day. Through a TON of continuous prayer I feel like this is where God wants me right now.
I honestly feel like you guys have no idea how heavy this freakin site weighs on me.
You have NO commitment to me or this site. You never have. I gotta stop
I would be interested in reading this.
Here’s my two cents
I was actually going to make the same comment that darla made about Christmas but after careful consideration let’s be honest the Christians were disappearing earlier than could reasonably be accounted for by the Christmas season.
I do agree with God’s Gal that some of the comments did “go south” and could probably have used some intercession (and a wag-of-the-finger to those of us in the “atheist camp” for allowing some of these conversations to go bad).
But I find that the “I haven’t been able to post because…” to be just an excuse, you find time for what you want to have time for.
That might have been more than two cents. Keep the change :d
I haven’t posted because of #3 Bill. Period! I already live in “the world” where I have no control over how people respond to my faith and relationship to God - even my own extended family! I am confronted with it daily, without choice, in my childrens school, in a grocery store, with relatives, sadly at times in the church. Why on earth would I come to “Friendly” christian by my own choosing and get filleted day after day after day from people who are just looking for a fight? Makes no sense at all. Brent, my husband, feels the same way too. He hasn’t been around either. We already live in a battlefield friend, and you know that. This place got way out of control.
I don’t need an excuse nor owe anyone an explanation. I just have a reason…and that’s it. Look at the rest of the people who seem NOT to be commenting either…No bait at the bottom of the ocean - no reason to come, scoop’em up and eat’emb-(
I too have established respectful relationships with a few here whom I enjoy and care about deeply. Who challenge my faith and thinking, who visit my blog and have humane and mature discussion. THAT is healthy. I just don’t get off on all the drama#:-s
@tam…
Thank you for you honesty. I know I’ve really blown it as far as comment moderation goes. It was way out of hand and had gone too far.
It’s my fault. Plain and simple. I finally understand what I need to do as the site administrator.
I love the concept of this site. I need to remember the sensitivity and take action when needed.
As much as it may surprise you, I’ve hated the drama too. I’ve been seeking advice/counsel from people who are much smarter than I am.
Again, Tam, thank you. Brent too! >:d<
>:d<
Bill, this isn’t about shooting the wounded. That’s not what we’re called to do.
How can I, we, help YOU?
Thanks for hearing us Bill….I was reading your FAQ’s and it just needs to get back there….I agree that this concept is good…I’m with Tam…what do you need from us? >:d<
Well, I don’t really know how to answer that. All I can tell you guys is, “awww.”
But seriously, I just need to be a better administrator. Through that, if people feel the desire to visit or have discussion, I’m sure it’ll naturally happen. If not, I need to stay on track if this is what I honestly feel God is calling me to and not change things just because some people have left.
Oh, I know what you can do. Forgive me for getting heated earlier.
Alright! Enough of the big warm fuzzy now. Let’s get onto some decent, respectful, mature discussion and hold each other accountable to it=d>
Interesting…
Pure and simple…I don’t have time to sit on any site all day and argue/discuss my beliefs. I am happy to share them with anyone who is truly interested, but sometimes(and this time in my life is one of them) I just don’t have the time.
Are we…am I running from a challenge???
That is a very strange idea here. I enjoyed some discussions and have not appreciated others. Hover(if I understood you correctly) mentioned that it is not our(Christians) fear that keeps us here or sends is away. I would agree with that. I am not being driven away, except for evaluation of my priorities
Do I have time to? No. Pure and simple. I don’t have time. It’s hard enough “talking” on my own blog let alone needing to hold up a conversation somewhere else.
Bill, you have created this blog for a purpose. To have 2 different groups of people talk. But, people and priorities change. You will have others that come through and leave as well. I sure hope you don’t take it personal. I don’t think you do, but it can become personal for us.
You said it best in this comment…
I have to decide if this is a priority for me and it isn’t. I am sure I will be back at times, but I have to focus on other things right now.
You guys know where to find me if you have a”question” or concern
Ah, LOVE IT! Let me know if you think I’m slacking.
One more thing. I agree with tam and GG and the need for your involvement to be greater here Bill. This is not why I would come or go though. Honestly I like a “healthy” discussion, but they are correct in you needing to be a greater presence here.
I would love to see your opinion and thoughts a lot more often.
@inWorship…
Thank you for your comments and honesty too. I have a lot of respect for you.
Well, FWIW, I’ll share what I’ve read to challenge my own opinions:
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts
“Tokens of Trust: An Introduction to Christian Belief” by Rowan Williams
“Christian Apologetics” by Norm Geisler
“The Case for a Creator” by Lee Strobel
Numerous posts by believers on numerous forums and blogs
I’m always open for a ‘you read mine and I’ll read yours’ challenge.
@Ben…
I have a question. What’s your motivation behind reading all these books and blogs?
Maybe I’ll take you up on your offer one of these days!
Several things.
If I’m wrong about something I would like to find out and change my mind. The Gospels I started reading as a challenge, the Geisler and Williams books were recommended to me as making the best case for Christian beliefs. Just like all other humans, atheists will represent differing opinions badly, so I have to go to believers to get the non-ridiculed opinions themselves.
On the other hand, if Christians are wrong and naturalists are right, I would like Christians to find out and change their minds. In that sense I am an athevangelist - fully admitted. Athevangelism is kind of low-key, though. I have no threat of hell and no intellectual authority like divine revelation to cite. My position includes my own status as a partially rational, ignorant primate doing the best I can.
Sweet !
[...] Bill has noticed a strange occurrence on his blog, FriendlyChristian.com. [...]
This must be an incredibly stressful way to view the world/other people.
@ those who may see this as “proof” that Christians are just as bad as everyone else, well we are in a way. We fall short and mess up. But that does not mean our faith is not geniune. See for every
I would be too
I was only implementing some of these…
Thanks for the help!
Regarding comment moderation, I think a little goes a long way. Understanding and acknowledging the different commenters perspectives helps.
For example, after a questionable comment, you can step in and say “Hey So-and-so, I can see you’re making point X about issue YZ, but can you try to phrase it in a more constructive way?” I know that sounds absurdly weasely, but it diffuses a potential fight because the one person sees that his point got through, and the other side sees that the name-calling or whatever wasn’t OK, hence won’t respond by escalating the dispute but rather will address the substance of the comment.
This isn’t a remark about your site in particular (I just came in through Hemant’s blog). It’s just that I discuss belief on my blog — and have believers as well as athiests commenting — and I’ve had almost no problem with fighting.
I am not a Christian, but I stopped commenting because I get triggered by too much that is said here. Being an ex born-again Christian, I found that reading the posts and comments was too disturbing. I especially get anxious when I see Chistians regurgitating Bible versus and things I know they heard from the pulpit instead of presenting their thoughts in their own words. Even in this thread, there are a few messages like that. It’s like, I could write EXACTLY what you’re saying and I haven’t been in church in 15 years. Please, please try to say things in your own words so we can see that you are thinking for yourself and not just parrotting doctrine.
Basically, though, I think the visiting atheists should adhere to “When in Rome”…. that is, this is a Christian blog, so don’t try to make it something else. When I go to my in-laws and they say grace at dinner, I sit quietly and respect their traditions. When they come to my house I would ask the same respect (I don’t always get it).
I guess my point is, I think Bill has an interesting idea for a blog, but I don’t think the point should be to debate Christianity versus atheism. There are plenty of places to do that, and it always degenerates into an unpleasant situation.
I’d like to see more topics about how Christians and atheists (and anyone with any other beliefs), can work together to fight against prejudice and injustice in the world. I think that would be a good use for a site like this.
Can Christians handle participating in charities that don’t include witnessing and prostelyzation? If so, they might get more help from unbelievers. Can atheists tolerate those with beliefs that seem irrational as long as the believers are not trying to shove their faith down our throats via nagging or legislation? Are there any things that we have in common?
Personally, I have no problems with Christians, it’s Republicans that really make me mad, so the religious right pisses me off to no end. But I know a lot of born-again Christians who are not in bed with right wing politics. I think a lot of the problems that unbelievers have with Christians — speaking in general now — is the whole fiasco of right-wing politics taking advantage of Christians who don’t even see that they are being used by people who are only pretending to care about their values and issues. It has almost ruined this country (it still might), and there are not enough Christians (yet?) speaking out against it. So by being silent, you get glommed in with the goons.
That’s another thing I’d like to see here, posts in the flavor of Randall Balmer’s book, Thy Kingdom Come, which is an evangelical Christian tirade against the BS of the religious right. Let’s see some Christians who are truly friendly to gays, single-moms who have no intention of getting married, buddhists, atheists — you name it — not just trying to convert them.
Ok, fading away again.
Donna
Bill,
It’s a good thing that you are doing here. I have no advice on being a moderator because I have never done it.
To be completely honest, I don’t come here as much as I used to because I go to school and work with people of different beliefs every day. They are lovely people, many of whom I am proud to count as good friends. We discuss beliefs a lot, always respectfully and kindly. However, when it’s all done, I don’t have the energy to get on the ‘net and start it all over again. If I am going to surf, I want to find something a little encouraging to “refill my well.” If I have to choose between discussing these things with strangers on the ‘net and people who I have a real relationship with, then the flesh and blood folks are going to win out every time for me. That’s just how it is.
@Odgie…
Hey! How are ya? I think what you said is extremely fair and honest. As I’ve said before, if I didn’t host this site I doubt I would spend a whole lot of time (if any) here.
It takes a certain heart…a certain spirit for a Christian to want to hang around here. I’m working on mine
Bad,
I was referring to “spiritual warfare”…
Tam
Don’t count me as a missing commenter since I am almost always lurking anyway. Although I’m not one of your Christian readers, keep in mind there might be lots of other Christian lurkers out there.
There might be many others like me with way too many feeds and barely enough time to read them all, let along comment. I don’t know if lurkers with feed readers will show up on your hit count…?
Donna,
It wasn’t here though. That’s certainly why I’ve stuck around. The debate had always been …well… friendly. Up to a point. Having said that everything that you wrote about what this blog could do would also be great as well as interesting reading. Although it would make a rather unwelcome statement about the relevance of religion if it took off in that direction.
I’m a Christian and I just found your blog via Think Christian.
@SolShine7…
Yeah, I saw that ThinkChristian.net gave us a plug today. How thoughtful. I’m glad you stopped by. I looked at your page. I’m originally from the “Mitten State” too! Right outside of Detroit
Hi! Welcome
Hi Bill,
Just found this site via a link from Friendly Atheist. I’m sorry to hear that your Christian readers are disappearing. I am a former atheist who just didn’t go back to Christianity after leaving the nonreligious worldview behind.
I think that this blog has great potential to be a positive complement to Friendlyatheist.com. It’s never a bad thing for the religious and nonreligious to come together and discuss their differences in a civil manner, and I’m glad to see that you’re trying to promote that here. I attempted something similar with an atheist blog I had earlier this year, and my frustration then was very similar to that you express now. I eventually gave up my blog, but I hope that you will continue yours. The dialogue needs to continue. The insanity needs to stop.
I wish you the very best with your work. Meantime, let’s all keep Omaha in our thoughts and prayers.
I applaud you.
GG - just saw your comment + thought i’d say hi. regards + best wishes for you + yours, particually your mother + son.
Thanks Ash…we all have our “stuff” don’t we? One day at a time!
I just found your blog through a link from FeedBlitz.
As a Christian, let me say I am not offended by, nor driven away from the content of your postings. So I guess this Christian will be coming back to see what your updated posts have to say.
For some of the Christians (and non-) who visit your site, let me give a little perspective:
For 45 of my 49 years I was a non-believer. That kind of legacy gives you a very keen understanding of what an unbeliever is, and why the usual christian-speak has absolutely no effect. A pastor who taught one of my Bible classes calls it a ‘Christian-mugging’ when a believer confronts someone on the street with tracts, jargon and Scripture quotations. I can honestly tell you, that that does not make a dent. Why? Because unbelievers have no common reference point with us when we do this.
To paraphrase what Bill has said elsewhere on this site…Love them where they are now. Look how Jesus conversed with the Samaritan woman at the well. He just started speaking to her in the context of getting a drink of water. And what about the Centurion? Jesus gave His love and healed the servant without launching into doctrine.
Scripture and doctrine are important, but they are not good conversation starters. Love and respect someone as they are. Listen and speak with them like you would any other topic. The Lord will present the right opportunity to broach the Gospel. Don’t be in a hurry to do it your way.
Nuff said.
Hey Bill,
Just wanted to tell you not to be discouraged. Don’t let others’ opinion of you influence your vision. Just keep following your heart, and if it was meant to be, it will be…
Christians are a strange bunch (myself included). IMHO, we are the most fearful, the least honest, the quickest to judge, and the most sensitive to criticism. Hmmm… I wonder why that is? We shout freedom, yet we don’t know how to be completely free. That’s the reason I don’t comment here. For example, I saw Hemant’s post about your site losing its readers and came over to take to look. But as I read through the comments, I began to think that I wouldn’t feel totally free to speak my mind here. Can’t put my finger on exactly what it was that made me feel that way.
The reason I’ve decided to write this comment is because of your comment #18. I really felt that one.
May I just share with you this excerpt from a very insightful book that I’m reading:
There are morsels of wisdom and truth in all kinds of places outside of the Christian religion. As far as atheist books, may I also suggest “God is not Great” by Christopher Hitchens and “A Letter to a Christian Nation” by Sam Harris?
For myself I’ve found the reason I don’t add much to the conversations is that I just don’t have the time to take to keep typing in a more chat-like comment way (which this forum seems to be a lot). Being a college student I only visit a time or two so I’m only a christian lurker/drive-by poster.