A Moment With…Leaving Eden (pt. 1)
Over the past few months I’ve had the privilege and pleasure of getting to know one of the most unique, smart, and interesting writers/people that I’ve come across in a very long time: the author of Leaving Eden. For those of you who might not know Leaving Eden’s story, go to the About Page to catch up real quick.
I recently had the opportunity to do a short interview with LE. I’ll post the first half of the interview today followed by the second half tomorrow. Enjoy!
- I guess the first, and perhaps the most obvious question would be to ask why you’ve chosen to remain anonymous.
- How do you feel when/if Christians ask you if they can pray for you? Do you still let them?
- You made the statement of “unfortunately, most people don’t seem capable of just listening and receiving someone else’s story.” I completely agree. I also think that this is one of the biggest reasons why most Atheists and Christians are unable to have a mature, back and forth conversation. With all the passion that is involved in the great God debate, what advice would you give to Christians and Atheist alike in attempt to promote the type of relationships that you’ve described? Do you think it’s REALLY possible for people, say you and I, to have deep faith/no faith conversations without being forceful, bull-headed, or angry? If so, why can’t more people see to figure out how to do it?
- What made you decide to record your journey and publish it for the world to read?
I feel that most people at Wheaton are simply not ready to deal with having an atheist openly among them. When my blog is read, I want the focus to be on the story of an atheist student, not on my identity, and I deliberately try to be as vague as possible about that. I think people will be more likely to listen to my story this way, when it’s not prejudiced by their perception of me. I don’t want to be judged on the basis of my atheism by people at Wheaton who only know me in passing.
There are also more practical reasons: I don’t know what the repercussions would be if I came out while still a student at Wheaton. Even though deconversion probably wouldn’t be a basis for expulsion or disciplinary action, there is still a lot at stake at a school where everything is based on the assumption that all students are Christians. Almost all of my classes, for example, require me to give devotions, write papers and participate in class discussions about my personal spiritual life and my views on Christian theology, and there’s no precedent for atheist students.
There are a lot of things I want to write about that my anonymity doesn’t allow. I would like to write about classes I’m in or the discipline that I’m majoring in, or specific things that I’m passionate about. Maybe I will someday, but for now remaining anonymous is the right thing for me to do.
I don’t have a problem with people praying for me in private, but I don’t want to know about it. I would definitely have a problem with someone praying for me in my presence, because I just don’t think it’s helpful or considerate. Luckily, no one has tried to pray with me since I became an atheist.
Saying “I’m praying for you” is such a normal part of speech for Christians that it might be hard for them to adapt to non-Christians, or they might not even want to. When Christians say this to me, I just say “thanks” or “okay” and try to move the conversation along. It doesn’t bother me too much, but I’d also caution Christians against saying this to non-Christians too often. One problem is that if you just say “I’m praying for you,” I have no idea what that means. Are you praying for me to believe in God? Are you praying that I’ll be healthy and happy? Are you praying that I’ll be a stronger atheist? If you are determined to tell an atheist that you’re praying for him, think carefully about your motivation. If you simply want me to know that you’re thinking about me and you care about me, consider using words that would be meaningful to both of us, instead of just to you. Remember that atheists don’t believe in God, so prayer means nothing to us. If your intention in talking about prayer or trying to pray with someone is to influence them to believe in God, don’t be shifty about it. Even if someone can’t accept my nonbelief, it’s a lot easer for me to respect their beliefs if they are honest about their motivations.
I do think it’s possible to have these conversations in a civilized way, and I also think it’s possible to have very deep relationships with people who disagree about religion.
It has to start with pure intentions. Your motivation shouldn’t be to convert anyone or even to sow seeds of doubt in anyone’s mind, but to hear their story and know their perspective, and to share yours, so you can be enriched by each other. You have to be honest with yourself about what your intentions are. If you say you don’t want to convert anyone but you have an idea in your mind that you’re going to drop little Christian tidbits in conversation and it would be great if you could cause them to doubt, it will always come out in your words or actions. If you do have that intention, it’s best to be honest from the start. I’ve had Christians say to me, “you know, I do want you to become a Christian again, and I’ll try to restrain myself but I can’t guarantee that I won’t preach or quote scripture at you sometimes. I hope you’ll forgive me when that happens.” I really appreciate and respect that. That kind of honesty can save a friendship.
I can honestly say that I have no intentions of leading anybody away from whatever road they’re on. I’m in my infancy as an atheist and I’m quite happy figuring out my own road and sharing it with people who want to walk with me. I’ve actually had conversations with Christians where I’ve sensed that they had some doubt in their own faith, and I knew there were strong atheist things I could say that would rip that seam a little wider. But I keep quiet, both out of respect for them and their faith, and because I know I’m not ready for the responsibility of trying to change someone’s mind on something so important.
I started my blog kind of on a whim, out of frustration and anger at being silenced. I wanted to set a precedent for atheist students at Wheaton and other Christian colleges. At Wheaton, atheist students are either treated like they don’t exist, or are used as examples of what not to be. I was tired of that, even when I was still a Christian, and I think it’s a really lousy way to go through college being treated as second-class because of your nonbelief.
Mostly I just wanted to get things off my chest and have a place where I could be honest. Being able to write and having the support of people online has helped me get through this semester with my sanity intact.
More to come tomorrow!
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16 Responses for "A Moment With…Leaving Eden (pt. 1)"
Leaving Eden-I have been on your blog in the past, and left comments…As a Christ follower I am saddened in how you have been treated by other believers, and that you can not have an identity on your blog. I do care and I am praying for the believers who have wronged you.
Wow… That’s got to be hard to deal with, day in and day out. I just hope that LE doesn’t become bitter due to this experience, as I know it would be easy to do so.
Thanks Bill and LE - great interview!
I understand how you feel.
I never wanted to take anyone else’s faith away.
This is something i agree with whole-heartedly.
I don’t wish to be an atheist evangelist.
Atheism is something a person should come to on his or her own through deep reflection and intellectually honest personal dialog.
I am not out to destroy anyones faith.
My goal would be to encourage everyone to question everything and to make up their own minds.
Robert
@Robert
I’m with you. There is really no point to being an atheist evangelist people will lose faith on their own.
The one thing that I do… uh… do is simply let someone know (if appropriate and that pretty much only happens when I’m asked point-blank or there is some unneccessary disparaging of atheists going on) that I am atheist. I think the knowledge that there are “average Joe” atheists who are willing to identify with the label is enough.
[…] Christians to be more respectful in the way they talk to and about atheists. There’s an interview with the Leaving Eden author (link goes to part 1, here’s part 2) at the FriendlyChristian blog if you want to read […]
Wheaton College is by its purpose a Christian college- that is why it exists-to help beleivers develop a Christian world view on all areas of learning. The existence of God is an established assumption in its teachings. It makes little sense why an atheist would go there or assume that it should be otherwise. The college has a Christian agenda and should have.
Atheism has its own agenda and is evident in the works of Dawkins, Dennett and Hitchens. There arguments are old and worn out and colored. To read them is to read bad philosophy and logic. Anthony Flews latest book “There is a God” shows why the most intellecual and eloguent of atheists moved to a theistic world view and while not a Christian he weighs in its favor in the last chapeter (second appendix) of his book.
If a person willingly and annonymously goes to a Christian school to write, as an atheist, about his experiences I wonder if he himself is not quite being honest.
It makes quite a bit of sense why a Christian would go there, invest quite a bit of time and money, become an atheist, and decide to finish it out. Maybe try looking into the matter BEFORE forming and stating an opinion?
That would be Roy Varghese’s latest book.
I am so happy that you chose to record your journey. I think though that the assumption that you were once a Christian should be straightened out. You cannot lose your salvation, John 10:28-29. I can not be sure but it seems as if you may be carrying a burden with the assumption that you used to be a Christian. My advice would be to free yourself from that assumption. Your atheism is either you being honest with yourself and saying that you never believed or you are going through a time where your doubt is severe. Either way you have lots of company from others who have been where you are presently. My hope for you is that day by day you are solidly confirmed in the truth of your situation and that your conviction in your beliefs is strengthened. Good journey to you!
This confuses me. Are you saying once you believe you can’t become an unbeliever? Do you think all ex-christian were never really believed? I’ve never heard that and as an ex-christian myself it doesn’t make sense.
Nat, I wish I were lucky enough to have never heard this before.
What about Hebrews 6, which says that once a Christian falls away he can never regain salvation?
Ahhh, the great debate ensues…
If I may assume the role of devil’s advocate for a sec…
What about Romans 8:38-39?
or John 10:28-30?
I’ve gone blue in the face trying to figure this one out…
IMO, you can argue an extremely strong case for either side.
He he he Bill. You could save the effort and reject both.
Interesting, Bill. I can see why it would drive you crazy among other things in the bible.
I was questioning that Pastor Tood seemed to think that LE was never a Christian. It just seems odd, like he was always an atheist just in christian clothing for 20 years.
[…] the school”. there’s also an interview with the author of leaving eden on another blog, here (part 1) and here (part 2) that are worth […]
I am glad that my comments sparked a discussion. Hebrews 6 is a good place to go for discussion. The issue at hand though is this, “Is God sovereign or not?” If He is, and I believe that He is, then He does just as John 10:28-29 says He does. He sovereignly holds those who are His. If we are to say that God has no desire to keep those who are His, we must then ask the question, “Is He a god worth worshipping or serving?” Once we get here we play into the atheist argument that this is proof that God does not exist and if he does he exists as Joe Campbell, “Power of the Myth” surmised, only in our minds and traditions. At best, if we come to the conclusion that we can lose our salvation we also must admit that our theology must be at least deistic. God twirls the world into existence and then says we are on our own.
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