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Wow. Yesterday we saw 62 comments and well over 1000 hits. I guess I hit a nerve 
As many of you already know, yesterday was an extremely tough day for me and my loved ones. My heart is heavy and I feel like I’ve been kicked in the stomach.
With that said, I want to thank everybody for commenting yesterday. I think your responses may have hit me harder than I expected they would’ve. I’d like to ask you guys another question. The flip-side of the coin, if you will:
What are the good things that you’ve seen come out of Christianity?
For some, this will be easy and your list could be long. For others, your initial response will be something along the lines of “absolutely nothing,” just like the War song. Before anyone jumps the gun, I’d ask this: just be real. I’m not asking anyone to confess their dying love for Christianity. However, for anyone to say that there is no good that comes out of it, well, you’d just be lying to yourself. We all had our chance be critical yesterday.
So, what is the good you’ve seen in Christianity?
Side note I - for the Atheists: I already see handful of things about Atheism that I both respect and consider to be good. Though I’m not an Atheist, I can see outside my Christian walls and see the good in other faiths/beliefs.
Side note II - for the record, yes, I have heard of [tag]FriendlyAtheist.com[/tag]. As a matter of fact, he’s all about my site and my goals. Chances are you’ve been referred here thanks to Hemant. So, with that said: “what’s up, Hemant?? How are ya, man?” 
Sorry…had to do it.
Popularity: 5% [?]
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Strangely enough, the best aspects of Christianity are also the aspects that led me to the conclusion that it is untrue. It’s done an amazing job of inadvertently preserving so many of humanity’s myths and archetypal concepts, while at the same time adapting itself to harmonize with the particular cultures of all its adherents. There’s a reason why “Jesus” seems so psychologically powerful a character, even though every Christian has his or her own unique conception of him.
Aside from this, of course, Christianity has done its share of good deeds throughout history, but so has virtually every other religion, group, or political entity. Even Mussolini got the trains to run on time. So while these are nice, they’re not anything particularly unique to Christianity, and nothing that I would consider pride-worthy.
Real quick, before this gets going:
I’m not looking for things that would make Christianity considered to be pride-worthy, but rather things that would make you say, “ya know what, that IS good,” whether it’s unique to the faith or not.
Bill
Morals.
Unity.
Knowledge.
Relationships.
The things I like most about the gospel of Jesus is “that which you do to the least among you….” The Widow’s Might, “forgive seven times seventy times” “love your enemies and pray for them”,Lazarus and the rich man, The Good Samaritan,…
I also like the letter of James.
Buddhism, while it has some of these features doesn’t seem to have much to say about justice, particulary social justice. That is why those who really follow Jesus are so needed in the world. You can see why I didn’t use the “C” word in my comment on the thread below.
The good comes from the people and depends on the people of any religion. Most of my friends are actually conservative Christians, but I’m friends with them not because of their beliefs, but because of who they are. I can safely say that my house-mate of two years and one of my closest friends is a Christian. I’m an atheist, and yet I love him like a brother.
Christianity (in the right hands) can do wonders. I don’t like it when they go on missions to trade beans for beliefs, but anytime I see a food drive through a church, I tend to give food. Regardless of your beliefs, a good church can become a great conduit for doing awesome things for the poor/sick/disadvantaged of any community. So you see, it is not religion that makes people bad, its the people who make religion (and each other, by influence) bad, and if you have good people coming together to feed the poor and hungry, then religion is just a non-issue.
Thanks for hearing us out, Bill! I’m gonna be watching your blog!
Ahah, I must admit this is a bit harder question for me. Though, first, I would like to say that I do like the nice note Bill wrote the new feedback authors, and also the fact that he did so wisely using a bcc!
As for what I like in general, the over-all theme of my answers is generally related to individuals as opposed to the large multi-person entities. Then again, my first answer on the stomach turning question was also regarding individuals as well (”how many I meet that [...]“, “how the most vocal proponents [...]“, regarding certain powerful notables, etc.). Since my responses deal with individuals and characteristics attributable directly to individuals, they are items that could be consciously altered should someone decide to do so. As I gather my thoughts, I do find that I keep trying to temper my answers and contrast the appreciated factors against other issues I see as negative. Note that I really am attempting to focus on the positive and that what negatives I have that relate to the topics I am trying to omit.
I like it when I find a christian that has actually read their own book with an attention to detail and continuity to admit the explicit contradictions that exist between the various parts. I like seeing christians that take that those contradictions that exist (either contradictions internally or items that can be demonstrated as in conflict with reality) and rejecting those issues as unanswerable within the bible. That is probably a bit close to what some object to as cafeteria christianity, but it does go a touch further in that the cafeteria style people often pretend the conflicts just don’t exist rather than admitting to them. Where many conversations with those that assume all in the bible is true and would otherwise result strictly in references to the bible as ultimate truth, this behaviour demonstrates intellectual honesty exists that enables conversations with those of differing opinions.
When those items that are rejected are some of the edicts that conflict with other rules such as requirements of stoning and other violence, the rejection often can be taken to relate to moral issues. I like seeing those particular rejections because they demonstrate that the christian understands that being selective about which morals they take from the bible to heed is indicative that individuals, whether christian or not, are ultimately basing moral judgements on personal experience and social interaction more than just on the written words in that book. With that behaviour, those conversations with people of differing opinions can result in actual two-way arguments since one side is not rooted in the predisposition that the other is wrong merely due to not basing their argument on the bible. I like that some christians have the open mind necessary to be able to have an honest dialog with those outside their outside their belief set.
I also like that there is also a large history of assisting the disadvantaged. I particularly like to see christians helping others with no expectations that those they are helping believe (or should be pressured to believe) as they do.
I spent longer than I expected trying to be more positive in my answers, so I will have to end here for now due to time. But, I must again express that I appreciate as a very good thing in christians that they can be vocal towards those that claim the same belief-set that it is important to have rational discourse with those of differing opinions. In that, I thank you, Bill, and the others listed on the “authors” page on this site for exhibiting some/all of those principles by which discourse is possible.
It certainly keeps a lot of people in line. Some people seem to need it.
But then, Sam Harris said “The truth is, no one wants to be in the business of arguing that another person’s principal sources of comfort and gratification are not as he thinks them to be.” Some people live simpler lives, and don’t need to question their upbringing. These are the people who, without religion, might come to the conclusion that morals are optional… I wish having open discussions about religion weren’t so taboo, so on that I thank you for these topics!
Grace is good. Regardless of which belief a person may have, Jesus’ example of grace and call for Christians to live the same is very good. This word is used in many ways today - saying “grace” before we eat as an example. But Jesus’ living definition of grace as truly forgiving others whether they “deserve” forgiveness or not is what I feel is one of many good things about Christianity.
I am not saying this is easy or that I have fully gotten past my own bitterness, but I strive to. The awesome thing is that I am a product of grace. I’ve received forgiveness from others when I didn’t deserve it. Am i saying non-Christians aren’t capable of this? CERTAINLY NOT! No, but grace is the key concept found throughout the scriptures, especially the gospels.
Yesterday, I said what turned me off about Christianity was the basic out-group hatred.
What I think can be good about it is the benefit that a person reaps once they’re in the in-group. People really do support each other through hard times, and then try to reach out an help other people as well - though the ulterior motive of converting unbelievers is often present there. I think the community, the support, the love for one’s brothers is a definite good.
It just makes me sad that the love and charity I’ve observed is often limited by religious identifier, rather than a gift given freely (without a side of proselytizing) to all humanity.
I find Christmas carols very moving.
Okay, I let it out a bit strong yesterday. Let me try and be truthful here too.
Here’s what Christianity is really good at: Relationships, not resolutions.
People above have talked about the food drives, and other good deeds. Here’s where church (and this isn’t exclusive to Christian church) gets it right.
You’re face to face with (some) of your neighbors. This causes people to talk about who is in need, and who needs help. Without that relationship, things go unsaid and needs go unmet.
It’s a power multiplier, for good or for ill. But sometimes the power is really really important, when we’re talking about whether a family has a place to sleep.
And someone making a resolution to “help the poor” and mail in a check isn’t able to assess the needs. A relationship with the people needing help is required.
Ashley Says:
Morals.
Unity.
Knowledge.
Relationships.
i’d add;
respect
charity
compassion
unfortuneatly, i do not see these things as being something i admire in christianity; rather that they are qualities i admire in any person of any faith or none; that they exist in many christians is often despite their religious views, not because of them.
@Stephen Carr - LOL!:))
[...] the flip side request from Bill: What are the good things that you’ve seen come out of [...]
I grew up in the rural South, where both Protestant Christianity and, unfortunately, child abuse (*not* to insinuate that one has anything to do with the other, just that they both existed disgustingly side by side). For many of my friends who were physically, mentally, and/or sexually abused, the idea that Jesus loved them no matter what anyone else said or did was more than once the only thing keeping them from suicide.
“Morals.
Unity.
Knowledge.
Relationships.”
We had all of these before Christianity.
Rich,
I completely agree with you.
Everyone,
Let’s stick to the question.
There are plenty of pro/anti Christian debate sites out there. This isn’t gonna be one of them.
I apologize if I offended. If its a laundry list without critique, I would suggest that in parts it certainly helped popularize and codify certain virtues, the most pleasing of which for me would be “Love thy neighbour”. I don’t think it is necessarily the genesis (no pun intended) for these, though.
I have seen a lot of charitable and compassionate actions from Christians.
When I was a child, my parents got divorced and my mother had very little money. My father paid about $150 a month in child support and aimony, and my mother made $1.95 an hour at a part-time job. Needless to say, we were not well off. Many time, people from our church would bring us bags of groceries, or leave money in our car during the Sunday morning service. My mother says these things were miracles, and God was looking out for her. I hate to attribute this to Christianity, per se though, and I will not attribute this to God. I prefer to honor the people involved and recognize their human compassion and charity. My mother had some great friends.
My mother is also a very giving person, and several times during her life has invited families who might otherwise have become homeless to live in her house for months and years at a time, until the adults could find good jobs and save up enough money to get a house of their own. My mother also attributes this generosity to God. I also prefer to honor my mother’s innate human goodness. I can’t believe she would have been a less giving person if she had not been born-again. I just don’t buy it.
So I guess that’s an ambiguous answer. My mother would say these things are good things that come from Christianity. I say they just are good things that come from the generosity of the human spirit.
It helps people band together to do good in the world. This can be in the form of charities or helping your neighbor.
It also gives people something to hope for so they don’t fear death as much.
1. I would say Christians have good intentions. They like the messages of forgiveness and caring.
2. Religion inspired art.
You didn’t hit a nerve, just asking atheists for opinions will bring them. We are a vocal minority
Now, what good can I say about xianity? I mean this sincerely. If you are drug using, out of work, drunk, bum and you find religion and it makes your life better you have stepped up your life to some degree. I find xianity wrong in almost every other circumstance.
LOVE!!!!!
love love love love love
grace
forgiveness
hope
the presence of Christ
and i REALLY like the concept of this blog.
thank you for bringing a positive name to Christians.
blessings
Before I say this: I don’t mean to be flippant. I thought about this answer before posting it.
The best thing to come out of Christianity is atheism.
I’m serious.
When you look at good things from Christianity, charity and the golden rule both come to mind immediately. The problem is that both of these things are not unique to Christianity. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” was formulated before the Roman republic, let alone the reign of Augustus Caesar. And Islam and Buddhism both have traditions of caring for the homeless, sick, hungry, and elderly. (Other religions probably do as well.)
Furthermore, my experience has been that for every Christian who obeys the golden rule and is personally involved in charity, you will find both another Christian who pays lip-service to the golden rule and occasionally gives some money to a charity, and a Christian who thinks god is best served by hating people and whose closest approach to charity is giving money to a priest who keeps the money himself.
If you believe that technology can help solve social and medical problems (and it’s hard to deny the latter), then atheism is actually a necessary point of view. You can’t seriously study physics and biology if you periodically shove your ignorance under the carpet by saying “this phenomenon is the way it is because god wanted it to be this way.” It’s a dead end.
(Islam often claims to have started modern physics and medicine. This is true, but Islam also put very definite limits on how far these practices were able to progress. During the Black Death, Muslim orthodoxy was that death was an expression of the will of god, so diseases could not be contagious. Ibn al-Khatib was killed by a mob in 1374 for, among other things, suggesting that there was — gasp! — evidence that the plague was contagious.)
Secular governments are inherently superior, all else being equal, to religious ones. Religious governments are tied to a particular doctrine. They cannot adapt to changes in this random world without becoming massively hypocritical, and can be threatened or destroyed by flukes. (Consider, for example, the Spanish Armada: until Catholic Spain failed to conquer Protestant Britain, all of Europe assumed that Catholic ascendency over Europe was divinely predestined. When the Spanish lost their fleet because of the weather, it destabilized governments across the continent.)
Where did secular governments and atheism arise? Certainly not in the Islamic world, where there is still Sharia. Not with the Buddhists. Japan’s government is secular — but that’s because they lost to the secular U.S.; before World War II, the Japanese emperor was officially a god on earth. Only Christianity has produced the honesty and intellectual rigor needed to create secular governments and substantial atheism.
Ethic of reciprocity / golden rule
Community
Neither of which are exclusive to Christianity - but then neither were my dislikes.
the idea of a loving God, which really hadn’t been heard of much before. the idea that God would come and be one of us and sacrifice himself for us. it was not a new idea, but it was the first one of its type to really seriously take off (the pagan ones had remained localized). the idea of forgiveness and loving your enemies. many of Jesus’s actions-his hanging out with all the “undesirables” and being kind to them. the community that it brought, and some of the sacraments are pretty cool. and honestly, several Christian values are good. the problem is many people don’t follow them, or they twist them for their own ends. I think if everyone lived by Jesus’s rule of “love your neighbor as yourself” the world would be a much better place. The art and music that have been done with Xtianity as an inspiration. The charity work that xtians do. Also, the ability of all religions (and Christianity is definite among them) to bring positive meaning and comfort to people’s lives, especially when they are down and out (drugs, illness, etc.) And I absolutely LOVE the Christmas holiday season! Easter has some neat stuff too. The idea that people are praying for (not unique to just xtianity). I like the Catholic idea of saints too. I know it’s not a new idea, but it’s neat how they sometimes put it into practic IMHO. I like the concepts of angels too. I’m sure I’ll think of more later (I am quite out of it right now) so when I do, I reserve the right to come back and post more.
Bach.
Seriously, some of the most amazing, emotional, beautiful music came out of the churches back then, from Bach and many of his contemporaries. Although his secular music is wonderful, too, I suspect things would have been quite different if he hadn’t had the opportunity and inspiration of writing for the Church.
I wanted to add something about love. I agree with the person who mentioned the in-group, out-group stuff to some degree (Christians helping other Christians in their church, as I discussed above), however the opposite is also sometimes true.
When you are visiting a church, everyone will act all friendly and lovey-dovey to you, with the Jesus Loves Everyone message right out front. This can and does, indeed, help some people (especially those going through really bad times). Believing that Jesus and other Christians love you makes you feel good. But that does not mean it’s necessarily true, in either case.
Anyway, once you join, then you often find out that there’s a lot of “us versus them” stuff going on and if you don’t fit into the rules of that particular church, you will find that you are eventually ostracized. This doesn’t happen in all churches, but I have seen it more than once.
I guess since I left Christianity behind, I didn’t see enough good in it. Sorry for being such a downer in this topic thread.
I have a hard time finding positive things which are unique to Christianity.
The loving and forgiving relationship Christians have in Christ is no doubt powerful for them, but it is a daily meditative visualization (a very comprehensive one, no doubt) which can be replicated using other archetypes other that Jesus.
Feeling the power of God or Jesus at church, and being moved to tears by it, is also an experience which can be replicated by other group ceremonies, meditative techniques, and visualizations.
The art, music, architecture, altruism, charity, and moral lessons all can be done without theism. There is nothing here that is dependent for its existence on Christianity.
The ethics are inspiring and quite beautiful, but not very comprehensive or in-depth. The formal study of ethics has produced far more comprehensive conclusions.
I suppose the only truly unique thing I see is that, of all the paranormal beliefs in the world, Christianity is the one that rose to power in the West. Of course, that is also not too unique. If Christianity didn’t do this, some other paranormal belief would have risen to power.
The Art.
Alright, crew…work with me here.
As I mentioned in comment #2, I’m not only looking for good that is unique to Christianity or originates from Christianity.
Thanks for the comments so far!!
Agnus Dei (Adagio for Strings) composed by Samuel Barber. Beautiful music.
Sprout - freethinker and agnostic/atheist (depending on world events) :-s
Bill, what do you mean originates from Christianity? I think you’d help us answer better if you elaborated please.
Hey Bill, wasn’t the critical undertone, or overtone, for yesterdays question. Wasn’t the question today referring to the “Good”? I’m reading a lot of, this was good but let me continue on about how horrible and pointless it still is… Just a question…:-?
K, lemme try. I guess I’m just trying to e a bit simpler (prob cuz I’m nowhere NEAR as smart as 99% of you guys).
If somebody asked me, “Hey, what do you like about baseball?” I could say “the team aspect,” and leave it at that (even if I hate baseball).
Or I could say, “Well, I like the team aspect, but I’m not gonna give credit to baseball because cricket has been around much longer, plus many sports are team-oriented, so baseball doesn’t deserve the credit.”
This may be true, but the question wasn’t, “what is something good that is unique to Christianity that originated from Christianity and has Christianity alone to thank.”
Example: I love the passion many Atheists have for education. Am I an Atheist, no. Did education originate from Atheism, no. Are there other groups who strive to be as educated as possible, yes. Yes, do I still love the passion Atheists have for education, yes.
That prob just made things worse
What is unique to Christianity is grace and mercy. Mercy is not getting what you deserve (punishment), grace is getting (a gift) what you do not deserve. Christians do not have to earn their way into salvation. They don’t have to do pennance for their sins (the whole hail Mary stuff of the Catholic church is laughable in my opinion). Many religions speak of love and peace…but grace is the difference. It doesn’t make sense to anyone on this earth - we all feel like we SHOULD be punished for the crap that we’ve done. And that is why my gratitude rests in Jesus Christ who paid the ultimate penalty, the ultimate sacrifice for EACH person who will admit that he is Savior and turn from their sins. Because AS SOON AS we pray to Him with faith AND REPENT (to turn away from sin) …..our slate is wiped clean.
Because of Jesus, I have hope and a future. And part of my purpose (or maybe all for that matter) rests in the fact that I should share that amazing gift with as many people as possible.
Wow, this one is a goodun.
Personally, the thing I appreciate the most is churches. I always joke with my wife that someday, we’ll conquer a church and live in it (after all, the faithful aren’t using it for anything important, hyukhyuk).
Obviously, I’m not talking about the modern strip-mall churches that seem all too common. I’m talking the besteepled stone monsters, gargoyles and buttresses and all.
There’s a great one in downtown Pittsburgh that sports a wrought iron steeple, full of curlicues and the like.
Might be superficial, but it’s my absolute favorite aspect.
Egalitarianism. The idea that we are all equal. The Greeks invented democracy, but regarded their slaves as sub-human. But, Christianity insisted on the inherent dignity and worth of the “least of these.”
The Golden Rule truly is just that.
Forgiving 77 X 7. But, only when used wisely, i.e. not used to justify letting others continue their abusive behaviors.
Tough love.
The Protestant work ethic embodied in the words “He who will not work will not eat.” The Bible really does present both sides on this issue - charity for those who can’t and individual responsibility for those who can.
Man IS his brother’s keeper is a biblical concept, too.
“God is love” is not too far off from “Love rules.”
It has been a source of inspiration both for and against for some of the greatest art and writing of the Western World.
The bible itself
William Blake
Soren Kierkegaard
Jose Saramago
Immanuel Kant
etc, etc, etc
“Someone could take all of the comments and view them as atheist praise for Christianity” - The Skeptigator
Very, very, very good point, Skeptigator. Atheists - this is not my intention.
Thanks Bill for clarifying but I was stumped on the word originate. I think xians get credit for starting schools in America but I won’t go so far as to give them credit for the lessons being taught.
Can we get xians to state they are xians because some of these answers are not from atheists and I can’t think of any atheists that would be giving credit to xians for half of the stuff xians are taking credit for. My point comes from Polly’s post about egalitarianism and the Protestant work ethic.
HOPE, hope of a new start, a savior, a love that does not ever fail. Amazing forgiveness and the reality that we will never out sin God’s forgiveness. When I was still Christ’s enemy HE died for me. And of all the god’s this world offers, HE is the only one ALIVE!
Sad but true, even atheists believe in something…even if it is that we are wrong in our beliefs.
:-\\”sing a new song
edited by Bill
Can we get xians to state they are xians
Txatheist
Why? Change the slur xians to Jews, would that clarify the quality of your request?
The other day on Hemant’s blog someone, who I don’t hesitate to say wasn’t doing too well in the argument, demanded to know if I was a “theist”. I can assure you, it wouldn’t have mattered one bit in the argument only in the reception of it.
I suppose I like that certain aspects of Christianity are useful and, in the hands of few, are put to good use giving reasons and motivation for these people to do good in the world.
I like the Golden Rule. Applied.
@TXatheist:
Since you mentioned my comment, I’ll 2nd olvlzl’s objection. I find your “suggestion” disturbing for a variety of reasons.
a) Life of Brian (1979)
b) Dogma (1999)
c) “Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!”
d) Pugin’s architecture, although the syphilis may have played a role.
I like the people. Most religious Christians seem to get the weird idea into their heads that their religious identity obligates them to be nice or serve the community, or something to that effect.
This is perhaps in stark contrast to how some other atheists view Christians, but there might be reasons for this. To start, I live in a blue state.
I think the sense of community and support that comes with belonging to a congregation can be good. I grew up with a family that went to church regularly, and we did all sorts of activities that had nothing to do with religion aside from the fact that everyone belonged to the same church. I remember BBQs, sports, visiting people in nursing homes, making music, etc.
What I’m reading here, is so much about self….it has nothing to do with what we have done, or feel, or want,…it’s always about Him. The thing I love most about being a Christian, is the unconditional love and free gift that comes with knowing the one who created you in the first place. The true purpose of even being. The fact that I can’t out-sin God’s grace and that it is sufficiant for me. That His mercies are new every morning. That my feelings matter to the Most High God, anytime day or night He is available and listening. That He everything, and I am nothing without Him. I think if people just ask Him, He’ll be glad to put all of their doubts to rest……I praise Him and thank you for this web site….hang in there…nothing worth while is ever easy, and you know who you are in Him. Blessings my friend
Very much, and this has been recognized by many free-thinkers in the past, like Thomas Jefferson. His compilation of “The Jefferson Bible” was an attempt to purify the gold and get rid of the dross in the Gospels. So what’s good there?
1. The stress on the importance of service to other people (the Good Samaritan in Luke, the parable of the Sheep and the Goats in Matthew).
2. Saint Paul’s beautiful paean to love in I Corinthians.
3. The emphasis in I John that a man cannot love God and hate his fellow human beings.
These verses, and others like them, have inspired some of the greatest self-sacrifice for the sake of others that the world has ever known. They have also, by extension, led Christianity to a more universal vision of the Kingdom of Heaven. I applaud this universality, but I think it is dangerous for doctrinal Christians, since by definition, it makes little distinction between the Christian and the non-Christian and refuses to admit that God will condemn the latter. (The more ferocious fundamentalists decry this universalism for exactly that reason.)
I’m tempted just to say what most other people have said - the community - because the strength of church organizations is such that a group truly wanting to do good like feeding the poor has an easy time of it. Unfortunately, it also does the opposite - if people want to do harm (whether their intentions are good or not), they have a lot of support. There’s also the problem that a lot of charity work, especially missions, seems to put too much focus on evangelizing, which I feel is manipulating people to believe.
Hmm.
I think I’m gonna have to go with “the Bible is self-contradictory.” I say that because I believe that Bible contradictions are one of the causes of liberal Christians. They also serve to make fundamentalist beliefs look foolish, and from the only source they seem to accept as evidence of anything.
But, for something that most people regard as good (which I feel the need to include for being so negative at the top), I’ll say gothic cathedrals. Notre Dame is amazing! Gothic architecture can be found outside cathedrals, of course, but I feel that it was expressed best in them.
Thanks for the input today. Comments closed. You guys rock - both yesterday and today.
Bill
[...] I was anxious to comment on the Friendly Christian’s blog entry asking What is Christianity Good for? since I had commented previously on what about Christianity turns me off. Unfortunately by the time [...]