Negative Nancy, You Suck

15 Responses for "Negative Nancy, You Suck"

1. Kristina April 4th, 2008 at 8:21 am 1

   I agree wholeheartedly Bill. It’s like if I started giving a hard time to George Clooney for helping bring awareness to Darfur or Brad Pitt for building houses in New Orleans. These guys are doing great things for the world.

2. hoverFrog April 4th, 2008 at 9:05 am 2

   I think that people are suspicious of seemingly free gifts. We wonder if it is a bait and switch and when the switch will come. I also think that churches deserve a reputation for this and that is how we expect them to behave. It’s probably worse for atheists because we’ve had to endure the attempts at conversion and negative judgments on our morals. That makes us suspicious of faith initiatives.

   It is a pleasant surprise when people act altruistically. Personally I think it should be encouraged.

3. Odgie April 4th, 2008 at 12:39 pm 3

   “In my experience, I’ve noticed that many atheists have a very hard time seeing admitting any good in Christianity.”

   It’s a good point, but one that I have given up worrying about. Many of the atheists/agnostics I encounter in my day-to-day life don’t really care what others believe if it is not in their face. Their attitude is mostly, “Whatever gets you through the night; but it’s not my thing.”

   The blogosphere seems to be a different story. Here, it seems like many atheists (not all, but many) are defining themselves by being anti-religion, or worse yet, anti-believer. When a person defines himself/herself by what he/she is against, how can he/she have anything constructive to say? Again, I am not saying that all non-believers do this, but enough do it that it tends to cast a shadow over all discourse.

4. Skeptigator April 4th, 2008 at 6:00 pm 4

   When a person defines himself/herself by what he/she is against, how can he/she have anything constructive to say?

   Very, very excellent point. I think atheist’s as a group need to “move on” from what we don’t believe to what we do believe (and this means dropping the label atheist as well). Unfortunately, this can be very difficult to do because as a group we spend too much time correcting misperceptions about what we *do* believe. It’s sort of a defensive position by default.

   Bear with me here for a second, I do have a point to the story:

   I’ve never understood, until recently, how someone could live there lives second-guessing people’s motives. For example, I have read many a story or watched an interview with a black man in the U.S. and how they talk about this small voice that says, “Did you notice how that woman held her purse tighter when you got in the elevator or how those people conveniently crossed the street so they wouldn’t have to walk past you?” To me, being about as white and unpersecuted as you get, I could understand to some extent why they would think that way but what’s the point of it, why would you do that to yourself? You know what I mean? How instructive is that to someone’s worldview? I just chalked it up to I’ll never really understand, it’s not like I could ever be a black man.

   I found myself thinking about it again after my recent experiences with my brother-in-law, Dick. After a family thing over the weekend, my wife made the comment that I was unusually quiet and I think it was because it matters to me what my brother-in-law thinks. I realized that I was constantly running my comments through my normal “should I say that” filter that most everyone has and a new “what will Dick think” if I say this filter. That extra filter usually meant I had missed my opportunity to talk before the conversation moved on.

   I had unbeknownst to me until I psycho-analyzed myself slipped into the same kind of thinking that my example black man does. I’m kind of peeved that I did that and I’m a little more than peeved at Dick for doing that to me (of course, I’m just transferring blame but still…).

   And now for the whole point, imagine being the kind of atheist that carries around this “what will this look like” filter and since, due to the filter, you can’t express that frustration in real life. Take that same atheist introduce them to the internet which injects a certain amount anonymity and it removes that filter, now you are going to hear those real-life frustrations. And more importantly you are given a window into that filter that is OK for atheists to say out loud on the internet, “if I accept cheap gas from a Christian will they come up with some kind of ‘there are no atheists in a foxhole at a gas pump’ ” canard

   The problem with the black man example and the atheist example is that those scenarios are not imagined. Some women really do grab their purses or cross the street. Some believers really do believe that atheists have nothing to live for or lack morals because they have no god. I’m not saying all women or believers (or even most) but it only takes a few to reinforce that little voice and overtime that worldview is shaped.

   Now that I’ve psychoanalyzed the entire online atheist community (and since I’m an atheist I can speak on behalf of the entire group), you can simply make your checks out to “CASH” and remember that I bill in 15 minute increments. Oh and great post, Bill.

   To those who might not know what this whole Dick business is, here’s a post where I talk about it,
   http://skeptigator.com/2008/03/25/blocked-a-rant/

5. writerdd April 4th, 2008 at 8:01 pm 5

   Yeah, I know that many Christians are nice people and do generous things. The problem is, they don’t give the credit where credit is due — to themselves and the good-hearted people who are being generous — but they always have to shove God into the picture. You did it yourself in this post, just proving my point:

   Whenever I take my comforter to the dry cleaners, I like tip the nice lady $20. Why? Because I want to be nice. I want to represent Christ by my actions and not just my words.

   Which is it Bill? You want to be nice or you want to spread the Gospel? That’s what I call an ulterior motive. Why can’t you be nice just for the sake of being nice?

6. Kristina April 4th, 2008 at 8:35 pm 6

   @writerdd
   It’s not really that simple. The Christian life is never all that simple. I admit that sometimes I do nice things just for kicks and giggles for my friends and stuff. and there are times when I help others for the sake of the Gospel not as to “win souls for Christ” or put a notch in the “Jesus belt” but to represent him the best I can to the rest of the world because of what he has done for me. There are times when my (and probably Bill’s) selfish nature takes over and literally God has to “tap on our shoulder” to have us “love our neighbor as we love ourselves.” In order to live this life we chose.
   as for “shoving God in the picture”, I wouldn’t be doing nearly any of the good things I try to do had I not been pursuing something bigger than myself. I would be wrapped up in myself. This is my story I guess. At heart, I am a witch with a capital b. I don’t mean it is a “beating myself up” kind of way but in a “I’m going be honest about who I really am.”

7. Shiri April 5th, 2008 at 10:29 am 7

   What I don’t understand is why so many people waste their time and energy getting upset over it. If someone wants to give God credit for their generosity, fine. It’s not like he or she is insisting that (if you don’t believe in God) you will go to hell, or that you are a bad person, or whatever. That’s exactly what I don’t understand about most atheists . . . Why do they even care what Christians or other religious people do? Why complain about something that isn’t bothering your way of life? Free gas is hardly someone shoving their beliefs down someone else’s throat.

   -Shiri

8. Odgie April 5th, 2008 at 11:23 am 8

   “The problem is, they don’t give the credit where credit is due — to themselves and the good-hearted people who are being generous — but they always have to shove God into the picture.”

   writerdd,

   What is that to you? Nobody is taking credit for the good things that you do. Why do you care if Christians give glory to God for our actions? Its what we are taught to do.

9. Sara April 5th, 2008 at 12:43 pm 9

   I would rather think that good people are good people because that’s the right thing to do, not just because it’s what they were told to do.

10. Kristina April 5th, 2008 at 8:57 pm 10

    @ Sara
    Well for a lot of Christians, doing something because they’re told to do that is how things start. Many Christians start off as being either “sort of nice” to downright obnoxious. Then they read and start learning how to do “the right thing” according to the Bible. As they grow in their relationship with God, it becomes something more of what they want to do rather than doing because they have to. It’s a process.

11. Bad April 7th, 2008 at 1:14 pm 11

    When a person defines himself/herself by what he/she is against, how can he/she have anything constructive to say?

    I’ve never found this point to be compelling as a general statement. People that are against abortion, the death penalty, or alternative medicine, whatever you think of them, have a lot to say, and if the things they are against are bad, its very worthwhile that they say it.

    That said, I agree with the overall thrust of the use of that comment in this specific case. I certainly don’t enjoy negativity for its own sake, and I’m a pretty live and let live non-believer who makes a real distinction between criticizing religious claims and criticizing religious people (though there are certainly some of the latter who I think we’d all agree deserve some criticism from time to time).

    I wonder if any of the “nasty” people in that thread actually read the original news story, in which it seems like one of the purpose/effects of the event was to help a local business owner let people in the community know he was open for business. Seems like a great idea to me.

    But I also don’t think it’s quite comprehensive enough to complain about peoples suspicion as simply being out of the blue nastiness when that suspicion seems, by all respects, to have been earned by long experience.

    I also wonder what the reverse would be like. Non-believers don’t usually naturally band together as identified non-believers unless the subject is in some way related to issues surrounding being a non-believer in our society: we are most likely to, when we actively do things, to do it under a different banner, one specifically about the positive thing (i.e. a homeless services organization). But what would happen if a bunch of people identified themselves as Atheists and made the same offer in the same state?

    I think we all know that we’d get a heck of a lot more than just a few negative nancies turning down the offer or having things to say about it.

12. Scott April 7th, 2008 at 7:45 pm 12

    People are skeptical because everyone has some sort of agenda - particularly Christians. In fact, our agenda is so well organized that we have our own political party (or at least we think we do).

    When we start giving freely, no strings attached, maybe that will change.

13. Sara April 7th, 2008 at 9:41 pm 13

    It seems this gas give-away was no-strings-attached.

    Quite a nice start, I’d say.

14. Maria April 8th, 2008 at 5:28 pm 14

    I too, am tired of all the negativity on both sides. I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt. I don’t care who’s giving the gift, if it’s a gift and there aren’t strings attached, I’ll take it, and frankly I think you’re kinda silly if you don’t. Some of the atheists on that site sound just like some Christians I’ve met who say they won’t take something unless it’s from “their church”. The mentality sounds so similar sometimes. If other skeptics claim to be “open-minded”, they should actually see what the people are doing before judging. I will not suspect “ulterior motives” until I actually see some. Why can’t some other people who claim to be “freethinkers” do the same?

15. Matt L April 18th, 2008 at 11:59 pm 15

    I would rather think that good people are good people because that’s the right thing to do, not just because it’s what they were told to do.

    And how would one know that it is the right thing to do unless you were told so by either a person… or…. (gasp) God?