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Video: Him That Pisseth Against The Wall
I post this video for a few reasons:
- It’s funny.
- I disagree with a few things said in this clip. The last 15 seconds of the video make me roll my eyes.
- I’d love to hear what you guys think. Let’s get some conversation going.
- This one will require more than one sentence. I really wish pastors would stop taking aim at each other. It seems to be such a common theme nowadays for a pastor to call out another pastor (who last time I looked were on the same team) for doing things differently than he does.
There are examples everywhere you look:
- Bullhorn/street preachers vs emerging church pastors
- “KING JAMES ONLY” pastors vs preachers who use The Message or The Word On The Street versions
- Conservative baptist pastors vs the young “hip” generation of pastors
- Prosperity preachers vs non-prosperity preachers
- Megachurch pastors vs small “First Baptist” churches.
Can I go on record real quick? Rather than continuing the process of taking aim at another Christian, I’ll make this personal: If I feel like “Pastor so-and-so isn’t doing something right, instead of calling him out and creating even more separation in the church, why don’t I just take it upon myself to be the difference?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we’ve got to look stupid. Who else tries to gain from friendly fire?
Thanks to Nathan for the link
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Um, preacher man, Mr. Steven L Anderson, calm down, and guess what? The Bible wasn’t written in English. God didn’t “say” the word ‘piss.’ No one did at the time. It’s a translation. They all are. Someone, a translator to English, happened to have used the word ‘piss.’ Someone apparently with the same odd fascination with the word as you do.
It boggles me to no end when people quote the Bible, whatever version they prefer, as the literal word-for-word Word of God, when unless this person has the text in the original language in front of them, they’re reading from a mere translation, and all translations have some degree of personal interpretation to them, because the translator must choose one word over another for any given word, and whatever word chosen has various connotations in the target language, connotations that might not even exist in the original language.
Also, God didn’t write the Bible. Forget the fact that I don’t believe in God to begin with anyway; that’s irrelevant. Even if I did believe in a God, God still didn’t write the Bible.
Everyone, theists and nontheists alike, go get a copy of Richard Freidman’s Who Wrote the Bible?. It is an *incredibly* fascinating and informative read. One of the best books I’ve ever read, hands down. A fast read, too; a real page-turner. It’s enough to make anyone want to go grab a Bible and appreciate it for what it is, because it really is an amazing work of literature, whether or not one believes it’s divinely inspired.
Now, go read it, and I expect a five-page response paper on my desk by this time two weeks from now.
Sara, when of the first things I discovered when I retired was the Library.
I can now save my money for things like food.
I have just gone online at my library site and reserved a copy of Freidman’s book.
Thanks for suggesting it.
Another great thing about being retired is I no longer have deadlines. I might get back to you with a report in a few weeks, maybe a few months, maybe.
If I wrote a book today it would be in the context, and language, of the world that exist today. Something written in the past needs be understood in the context of the world it was written in.
Bill, I find it very entertaining to watch the different religious leaders snipe at each other.
The indivdual members of each group probably do a better job of working together then their leaders do,
@Sara…
This isn’t the Ivy League, my friend
Bill, you’re probably thinking of a different contexts than i am; i think there needs to be more of this. i’m not talking about which word you use for ‘piss’ or whether individual preachers want to start warring over ‘apple’ or ‘pineapple’ as being the fruit of the tree of knowledge, but hell yes i want more christian to christian challenge over matters such as sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. i was damn proud to see Darla try to be pro-active on her distaste for the westboro church, and i believe we need more christians who are willing to speak up for reason, and against bloody-minded, ‘christian’ endorsed prejudices, like she did.
if you want people to have a more positive image of christianity, STOP tacitly accepting the bigots who PISS all over it.
ash…
In the end I think we’re in agreement.
I guess it’s the means to the end that get to me. Any moron can stand up and call people names, tear down their organisation (good European spelling?) and criticise (once again) their efforts.
I think it takes a person of great will, courage, and determination to man up (or woman up) and just get to work.
Should a high-profile Christian stand up and tell the world that Westboro Baptist’s beliefs are extremely contrary to the majority of the Christian’s beliefs? Yeah, I think they should. I bet it would be a beneficial use of time.
Conversely…
Should pastors, from their stages, condemn other pastors for reading the wrong version of the bible, wearing the wrong clothes, sweating too much, saying Jesus the wrong way, etc? I bet they could find more useful ways to utilize their time.
I mean, seriously, this dude in the video called the writers of the NIV and NKJV bibles a bunch of sissy men (if you translate his PP analogies). He said the same about many of today’s pastors. Can good come from that - sure, I suppose…if people find this motivating. But I bet you and I could agree that there are much better ways that he could be using his time and his influence.
I say all this as a person who is seriously struggling with a critical spirit. I hate it, but I’m working on it!
First of all I have to tell you that my sound card is playing up and makes everyone sound really squeeky. This will explain why I’m laughing so hard because he’s ranting about pissing against a wall (I use a toilet) in a voice that sounds a lot like Mickey Mouse. =))
Real men don’t pss against the wall, they piss outside. Hoo-rah!
Wow. What an idiot. I don’t know whether to laugh at his unintentionally humorous rant, or just feel sorry for the congregation. There are just too many REAL problems in this country for someone like this to be taken seriously. Such a shame.
I have to say that I firmly believe it not only matters what you say as a preacher, but it also matters how you say it.
I also feel that it is very important for a pastor to speak out about the false teaching that is so often found in other pulpits. I can’t tell you how many Christian homes I have walked into the past year and found the false teaching doctrine of Joel Olsteen and his “Your Best Life Now” crap! In today’s world where everyone claims to be “speaking for God” or that “God spoke a word to them” it’s nice to have a preacher who will take you to the revealed word of God to see what HE actually has said on the subject.
Thank you to the John Pipers and John McArthurs of the world. Who put the literal word of God (and not their own interpritations) above all things!!!
@Jason…
Hey, thanks for the comment! I just visited your site. I plan on listening to your broadcasts real soon.
Your comment has made me think…
On one hand, I completely agree with what you (and ash) have said: somebody needs to stand up and set things straight. I’ve always been an advocate for calling it as I see it.
Lately I’ve just noticed that it’s a never ending battle. It’s almost silly. You’ve got both sides “speaking out about the false teaching.” It’s just not possible…it reminds me of the Republicans vs the Democrats. “He’s wrong!!!” “No, HE’S WRONG!!!” “Nuh uh…He’s wrong!” All in the mean time, I can only imagine how the kingdom may be impacted if we invested our time/energy into things that we can actually make a difference with.
I’m kinda torn now. I guess all I can do is apply this principle to my life however I feel it might be applicable. As for now, I don’t feel God leading me to stand up and combat any false teachings.
I did have one question for you, though, Jason. You said,
What is the “literal word of God?” When Mr. Piper and/Mr. McArthur read the bible and then write/teach about what he just read, isn’t he writing/teaching about his interpretaion of what he just read…his yoke? To me, one of the things I love about the bible is how alive it is. One verse can sometimes take on different meaning to me depending on what angle I approach it from…or what is currently going on in my life. By no means am I saying to in support of the video I posted. I just have a hard time with somebody saying, “I’m just gonna tell you what this verse really means.” I think it’s better said as “I’m gonna tell you what I believe God has shown me most recently through this verse.
Long comment…sorry. I don’t usually do that.
@ Bill Cecchini…
What I mean when I say the “literal” Word of God is that God means exactly what He says in scripture and nothing else.
We enter into a very dangerous zone when we read scripture and then ask ourselves this common question, “What does this verse mean to me”.
When we read scripture and then use other scripture to back up scripture, we don’t allow “feelings” to tangle up what God actually said in His Word.
Even the devil used scripture when he was tempting Jesus in the desert (Mat. 4:4-7). Should we assume that he was correctly “interpreting” scripture since he was only expressing what it meant to him? No, his interpretation of the scripture was obviously wrong and Jesus corrected him by reminding him of what God revealed in another part of his word (Deut. 6:16).
The reason that I named John Piper and John McArthur specifically in my post is because they are (2) preachers who use expository preaching and Biblical hermeneutics to determine what God is telling us in His word. By no means am I saying that these are the only pastors teaching the word, but they do believe in the inerrancy of scripture and the supernatural power of the scripture. They believe the word of God speaks for itself and it is not up to man to determine what God is saying. God has already said what he wanted to say and it is up to man to use what God has said to examine his/her life.
Why can one verse mean something to someone, and something completely different to someone else? Is that the power of God, or is it the power of man to twist scripture into what he/she wants it to say?
We must read scripture at “face” value like we would read any other text. We don’t read other non-fiction books and then say, what does this story mean to me? We wouldn’t read instructions for assembling a bicycle and then say what do these mean to me? We take them at face value without question. So why wouldn’t we do this with God’s word?
Thanks for the great conversation on this subject. I truly believe this is one of the most important issues facing Christians today. God bless you bud.
For His Glory
@Jason, I’m sorry but you can’t read the bible literally. OK you can but you will be faced with a conundrum fairly quickly. Which parts do you ignore when you have a contradiction, which parts carry greater weight than other parts, which parts are allegory? Actually I suppose you mean that none of it is allegorical if you take it all literally.
The bible isn’t a list of instruction like those required to build a bike. They are collections of stories that are open to interpretation just as reading a description of an event in a history book is open to interpretation. If you believe in the bible it really is the only way you can reconcile the errors, omissions and contradictions within it.
@ Hover Frog
Can you please interpret these verses for me?
2 Timothy 3:16 (New American Standard Bible)
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Matthew 5:17-18 (New American Standard Bible)
17″Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
18″For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
First we must decide for ourselves, If the claims that the Bible makes about itself are true. Depending on how you answer that question will determine how you view scripture. Personally I would rather trust the Word of God, and the promise of Jesus Christ that “not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law” then I will put my faith in the Word of God as apposed to my own or someone else’s interpretation of what God was “trying” to say.
On a side note:
And might want to sit down for this one…
You’ve got me figured out. I do not believe the Bible has any allegories!!!
For His Glory,
Jason
Jason, I’m afraid that interpreting scripture really isn’t something that you want me to do. I’m likely to tell you that it’s all a fiction.
However I will say that your New American Standard Bible is not the original. How can you be certain that the text has not been altered either through error of copying or deliberately? I’m not trying to start a conflict but there have been bibles printed with errors in. The most famous is the Sinner’s Bible which you’ve no doubt heard of where the humble reader is instructed in Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt commit adultery”. Bibles are written, translated, rewritten and now printed by men. Did you know that New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman claimed that due to the errancy of omission, intention (”reconciling inconsistencies”), language barriers, and undeniable mistakes there are more errors in the New Testament alone than there are words in the New Testament.
I find myself in complete agreement with you.
@ hoverFrog
Thank you kindly for your response. You bring up very valid points which have been used to question the scriptures for centuries. However, I think you are missing the point I was trying to make.
There may be errors in the reprints of scripture…OK, OK…forget “MAY” there have been and are errors in the reprints of scriptures, but God has protected his word by preserving numerous copies of the original texts so that we (apologetically speaking) have a foundation to stand on when the Word is being attacked by skeptics.
Here’s an example of what I mean. Lets say you go home today, open the mailbox and receive a letter. You open the letter and it says the following:
——————————————————————————————————–
Dear hoverFrog:
You have won $1,000,000. Please contact (555) 555-5555 to claim your prize.
Mr. McDuck
——————————————————————————————————–
There is no doubt what is meant by the text above. You are a millionaire! And its almost guarenteed that you will have several long lost relatives calling you very soon claiming how much they’ve missed their relationship with you over the years. $-)
Now let’s pretend you received the following message instead:
——————————————————————————————————–
Dear hoverFrog:
You have w0n $1,000,000. Please contact (555) 555-5555 to cl@im your prize.
Mr. McDuck
——————————————————————————————————–
Are you telling me that just because the “text” of the second message has a few typos that you are going to throw it out entirely? That you are no longer going to contact the number to claim your prize? That would be lunacy.
The amount of copies of the original scriptures, are a wonderful resource that God has preserved His Word so that man may have faith that the “original” words have been preserved. Mistakes will happen, but we have more than one source to verify what is actually being said.
Thanks again for the pleasant conversation. Oh, and if for some strange reason you do receive a letter in the mail stating that you’ve won $1,000,000 dollars, would it be too much to ask if I could trouble you for lunch sometime?
For His Glory,
Jason
Really? Where are these? I was under the impression that only early Greek translations exist.
Jason, skeptically I’d assume a message offering me $millions was spam and then I’d have to live with that missed opportunity.
How embarrassing!
As this is a “friendly” site I’d like to add my own greetings to Bill’s. It’s good to see some new faces.
What a shame…SPAM is ruining a perfectly good analogy…I don’t know if I fully believe you wouldn’t at least give it a shot, but I guess I’m gonna have to take your word for it.
So I guess that means I’m not getting my free lunch then?
Anyway, I don’t want to beat a dead horse, so I won’t…OK, well maybe just a little bit…There is enough physical evidence that backs up the accuracy of the Bible. Nothing in all of the ancient writings of the entire world even approaches the accuracy of transmission found in the biblical documents. Not to mention, that for Christians, [hold still now] there is something even greater than this. The “supernatural” proof. That being said, it still all comes back to what your view of scripture is and if you believe the claims that the Word of God makes about itself.
I leave you with this food for thought. Something for you to chew on if you are interested [Consider it my free lunch for you]. And thanks again for the great conversation on the subject.
The Dead Sea Scrolls were ancient documents that were hidden in a cave in Israel about 2000 years ago. The scrolls contained many OT books, one of them being Isaiah.
Before the Dead Sea scrolls, the earliest existing manuscript of the OT was dated around 900 A.D. called the Masoretic Text. The Scrolls contained OT documents 1000 years earlier. A comparison between the manuscripts revealed an incredible accuracy of transmission through copying, so much so that critics were silenced.
The NT has over 5000 supporting Greek manuscripts existing today with another 20,000 manuscripts in other languages. Some of the manuscript evidence dates to within 100 years of the original writing. There is less than a 1% textual variation in the NT manuscripts.
* Source: http://www.carm.org
—
For His Glory,
Jason
http://www.godtalkradio.com
By it’s very definition “proof” cannot be supernatural. I do accept that your personal experience can validate your opinions just as mine do but your personal experiences are not proof of the truth merely of your perception of the truth. Having said that people have been convicted on less evidence than the bible so it makes perfect sense to me why you would believe in it. It’s a shame there is no equivalent to the court of appeal for the bible.
Thanks for the information about the NT manuscripts. I knew the dates but I didn’t know there were so many. I suppose more was taken out and put in the apocrypha than I thought.
Here are some dates that may be off interest to FC readers:
Gospel of Mark: +70 AD (conservative dating may be as early as 50)
Gospel of Matthew: +80-90 AD (conservative dating in the 60s although as early as the 40s)
Gospel of Luke: +80–90 AD (conservative dating in the 60s)
Gospel of John: +95–110 AD (conservative dating in the late 80s to early 90s)
Acts: +80–90 AD (conservative dating in 60s)
James: ca.70–200 AD (conservative dating ca.45–62 AD)
Colossians: +60 AD+
Corinthians: +57 AD
Ephesians: +65 AD
Hebrews: +60–90 AD
Epistles of John: +95-110 AD
Jude: +70–100 AD (conservative dating in the 60s or earlier)
First Peter: ca. 90–96 AD (conservative dating ca.64 AD)
Second Peter: 100–140 AD (conservative dating ca.64 AD)
Philemon: +56 AD
Philippians: +57–62 AD
Romans: +57–58 AD
Galatians: +54–55 AD (conservative dating in the late 40s)
Thessalonians: +50 AD
Timothy: +70–100 AD (conservative dating ca.60)
Titus: +70–100 AD (conservative dating ca.60)
Revelation: +81–96 AD (dating in the 60s as a minority view among conservatives)
There is also some evidence in independent texts to support certain events referenced in the bible. There is also evidence that does not support the bible. The bible isn’t that good on exact dates and exact key events but then it was written 100 years after the events being reported so why should it be. For example the census that reportedly sent Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem wasn’t called till 6AD. I suppose the dates could be wrong but doesn’t it at least raise a question as to the inerrancy of the bible?
Once again, I don’t want to make it seem as if I will be able to find the right string of words, truths and historical accuracies to put together about God, that will be able to convince even the greatest skeptics of the absolute certainty of His existence.
However, I do believe that for a Christian (a believer) the supernatural power of the Bible is an absolute source for faith. I don’t expect you to understand this, but it is what it is.
Can you prove that your conscious exists? No you cannot, but it most certainly does. Can you prove that emotions or feelings exist? No, but they most certainly do. There are plenty of things that cannot be “proven” by the mere definition of the word, but there is no argument that these things do not exist. They do and we all accept this as true. It’s just one of those anomalies that we haven’t found the evolutionary explanation for (yet).
So for a Christian, the Supernatural power behind the Holy Word of God is foundational the faith that has allowed so many to be persecuted, tortured, and killed for the very thing that they simply believe in. Including many writers of the New Testimant. Would you be willing to die for something that you knew wasn’t true? That doesn’t make a lot of sense to me?
Anyway, if your interested in a biblical explaination of this you can always read:
Luke (16:19-31) or the blog I posted on this subject as well.
“Can you prove that your conscious exists?” and “Can you prove that emotions or feelings exist?” actually yes. OK I can’t but the brainwave patterns that correspond to consciousness and emotion can be measured. However, even if it was not possible to “see” consciousness or emotion it does not necessarily mean that these are supernatural, only that no natural explanation exists. As you say “yet”.
Belief is very powerful. I could not possibly dispute that people do all sorts of amazing things on the power of their belief. That does not mean that belief corresponds with reality though. I’ll go and read your blog now.
Sara,
Saying that “God didn’t write the Bible” is true in one sense, but I feel like I should clarify the historically orthodox view of biblical authorship lest there be any confusion. Throughout the ages, Christians have held to divine inspiration and human authorship. Thus, God didn’t pen the actual words of the Bible like Allah does the Quran in Islam. However, the Holy Spirit oversaw the writing of the Bible and inspired the writers so that what we have in the original autographs is inerrant and authoritative.
Translation is not as loosey-goosey as you may think, either. Oftentimes, a meticulous and careful examination of the greek or hebrew text will leave us with very few “choices” to make in our translation. Many Greek words have a wide semantic range, but more often than not the context makes it clear what the biblical writers had in mind. The KJV is far too dated and suffers from being made before 1945. I personally like to consult the original texts because I have been blessed with the education to do so, but for those without such a resource I always recommend having multiple translations at hand (especially including the NASB, ESV, and CSB).
Therefore, to say that God did not author the Bible is only partially correct if you’re wishing to qualify it with an extended discussion of inspiration. If you don’t believe in God, then it’s really kind of odd to hold forth about the Bible at all. Those who confer upon it the status of mytho-poetical literature or some such nonsense should take a careful look at biblical theology (particularly Graeme Goldsworthy’s “According to Plan” which looks at the unity of the OT and NT) before jumping to such conclusions. If, after such an investigation, they still wish to see it as man-made fiction then they have little option but to grant that it is the most astounding piece of literature ever conceived being that it is a unity of 66 books written over several thousand years by different men from different continents and cultures yet somehow being both the paradigm for all stories to come and the longing of men’s hearts.